Should L, K and C been less cruel to Rimmer?

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by emmawatson, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. emmawatson

    emmawatson Second Technician

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    I just cant get past how cruel the boys are. They don't even try to help Rimmer change/improve himself to a better person.
     
  2. dodgebizkit

    dodgebizkit Deck Sergeant

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    I think they do show compassion towards him (thanks for the memory, better than life) though Lister does appear to develop a little soft spot for him in me 2, though he doesn't show it directly to him.

    I don't want to spoil rdx four anyone but watch that and see how you think of their treatment of Rimmer too, the development shows. Lister really cares about Rimmer even if he didn't like him, he makes sure they rescue him when they found just leave him, and he helps him become ace.

    He's really happy to see living rimmer until he realise it's rimmer from before all their adventures.

    I think they couldn't be genuinely nice to him all the time while he's generally being a smeg head, I guess he grates their nerves and he feels the same way about them.

    It sickens me though in the original version of The End when Lister kicks rimmer's foot out, it reminded me of bullying behavior. Im glad they cut that out of the remastered version.

    At the end of the day it's odd couple banter used to create humour, and they rarely get too nasty and rimmer isn't a victim of bullying, he holds his own and often deserves the stuff thrown at him in my opinion.
     
  3. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Rimmer started it by deliberately dropping Lister's jacket on the floor.
     
  4. LastTimeLord

    LastTimeLord Supply Officer

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    Rimmer wasn't an angel when it came to 'bullying behavior', he tied Lister's hair to the bed and sounded the fire alarm, and laughed when he fell during work in the cargo bay and spent six weeks in traction.

    Also, in The End, he was an extremely uptight pompous git. It wasn't until Me2 that he mellowed into the more familiar Rimmer (IMO)
     
  5. LastTimeLord

    LastTimeLord Supply Officer

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    Rimmer in Series 1 also took things too seriously and personally.
    Todhunter says in a joking tone "Rimmer! You are a smeghead!" And he starts hurling insults after him.

    Rimmer never heard the phrase "Treat others as you expect to be treated."
     
  6. gem5ie

    gem5ie Catering Officer

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    I love that scene! The End was one of the last episodes I saw (I got into RD during the 1993 repeat run and the first ep I saw was Balance of Power) and to me it just encapsulates their relationship perfectly at that point. It's also very, very funny.
     
  7. sundayforsammy

    sundayforsammy Console Officer

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    If memory serves me correctly, I think the part where Lister kicks Rimmers foot out was an add lib that Craig just done at the time. Chris wasn't expecting it and was pretty annoyed at the time. I'm sure I got this info from the extras on one of the DVD's. Could be wrong about this though.
     
  8. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    You're thinking and worrying too much about this IMO, it reminds me vaguely of a post I read part once on the IMDB pages about how mean Blackadder was to Baldrick, why didn't anyone consider his feelings, didn't people realise that this was bullying.....?

    It's a sitcom that's built to a degree on the tension between Lister and Rimmer, if they're nice to each other then that tension's gone and much of the humour goes with it.

    To be honest though, that's just part of life to a degree and Rimmer really does bring a lot of it on himself in his own behaviour and attitude. If I was in Lister's position I can't imagine I'd behave any better, in fact I reckon I'd probably give Rimmer a much harder time of it if anything.
     
  9. SgtSmileyUK

    SgtSmileyUK Console Officer

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    the important message was they didnt kill each other, knew they needed everyone (albeit too late for some), and they learned to adapt their own behaviour as time went by , which in turn saved all their necks countless times.
    fair to say we can all have immature ways of dealing with things until we experience the negativity ourselves, In time we make improvements and try to change bad habits hopefully, and yes we should all be helping each other instead of blaming.
    Stop. The blame generally lies within ourselves.
    I think all the crew have matured well considering the extreme psychological difficulties they faced, claustrophobia, anxiety, depression, frustration, anger, self loathing, self pitying, blaming and so on. We wouldn't find it funny if they were bullying any individual. We laugh at ourselves(human behaviour), the way we tend to handle things- predictably wrongly, but are tickled by the clever use of languages that show how things can be taken out of context or misinterpreted in a myriad of ways that offer an infinite number of random possibilities to procreate from that moment in time forth.
    I do see you point about the 'bullying' seemingly suffer by Baldrick, Rimmer and most underdogs . We are all victims of ourselves, unless we change to positivity. (Ace is Rimmer influenced positively, not suffering social injustice(bullying etc)- the never ending cycle of negativity)so we need to learn lessons from comedy as well
    with the death of the poor nurse in real life after a prank went wrong- forget whos to blame- learn lessons, think about what you are saying and how it could affect anyone negatively- if theres a chance of upsetting somebody then its best not to say anything.
    Although its different in a close group of friends when this banter/tease/we shouldnt laugh at this but hey were gonna cos otherwise well all be sad and go mad. but tv , newspapers etc reaching out to millions, how would you like to feel the whole world is judging you and is laughing at you.
     
  10. Goit_84

    Goit_84 First Technician

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    There were a couple of times where all three acted like bullies towards Rimmer. The main one I can think of was when they all tried to go on holiday without him in Dimension Jump. I still feel sorry for Rimmer. He's a character - he's got all these eccentricities which are funny.
     
  11. Mardroid

    Mardroid Console Officer

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    That's not nice, but I wouldn't count it as bullying. I.e they didn't do it with the express purpose of hurting him (and in fact included him when he found out). They did it because they didn't want his company.

    Arguably his treatment of Lister could tantamount to bullying.
     
  12. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

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    I don't think that's bullying though. It's normal that if you are unbearable to be around, then people aren't going to want to be around you. I do still feel a bit sorry for him but at the same time, this is precisely what I mean when I say that he brings a lot of it on himself. If he wasn't such a pretentious, trumped up, farty little smeghead, his fellow crew members wouldn't have wanted to exclude him in the first place.
     
  13. Angelic_Storm

    Angelic_Storm Catering Officer

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    I think my sympathy for Rimmer here mainly comes from the fact that he was bullied as a young boy by his brothers and schoolmates, and the fact that his father (which we all now know, isn't his real father, which likely explains why his brothers where shown favouritism) favoured his 3 brothers over him. Now of course, plenty of people who were bullied and have bad childhoods turn out to be good people, but it still makes Rimmer's attitude and behaviour as an adult, more understandable. Some people are better equipped mentally to deal with that stuff than others, and clearly, Rimmer wasn't able to handle that, and so it affected his character in a negative way.

    In saying all this though, I really can't blame L, K, and C for their attitude towards Rimmer. Especially Lister. Rimmer laughing at Lister breaking his spine, then spending three months in traction, and tying his hair to the bed post and sounding the fire alarm, showed that Rimmer had on occasions, been very nasty to Lister. Also, in "Justice", when Kryten asks Lister who thinks of Rimmer most fondly, Lister admits that it's actually him, who likes Rimmer more than anyone else. More often than not, I think Lister's attitude towards Rimmer was perfectly justified. It is interesting though, that whilst Lister is usually the noble one, and Rimmer is the weasley, backstabbing Judas, these roles were reversed in "Marooned". Rimmer, very uncharacteristically, wanted to make sacrifices for Lister, and felt that his bond with him was becoming stronger. But this was all undone, due to Lister's (equally uncharacteristically) underhand, devious actions in this situation. For once, Rimmer was the honourable one, and Lister was the opposite.

    As they have matured, I think all of the crew, and especially Lister, have warmed more to Rimmer. The friction between them is still there, but that is needed to make the show work. But certainly, the negativity from L, K, and C to Rimmer (and vice versa) has been tempered a bit by age and maturity.

    I can't really blame them for their attitude towards Rimmer in the earlier series', but I do feel some sympathy for him, even though he brings a lot of it onto himself. hehe :-)
     

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