Radio Times Interview...possible future plots (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'RED DWARF: THE PROMISED LAND' started by bedfordfalls, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-04-16/red-dwarf-future-promised-land-sequel/

    I'll be honest, I'm left worried by the possible direction hinted at here as well as annoyed by the seemingly dismissive tone towards Lister getting his happy ending.

    First the part from Doug that left me a trifle worried:

    “They could be on a planet somewhere and a whole new civilisation could have grown up, you just don’t know…” he said. “This is where you go, ‘Actually, we’re looking for a new antagonist’ and you go, ‘Oh, OK, what happened to the crew?’.”

    I do understand that the idea of what happened to the restored crew has come up but do we really need to revisit possibly the worst series in the show's history and remind people of how it destroyed the central premise and then hand-waived it all away just when we've finally gotten back to the premise that serves the show best?

    I had assumed that the scene in 'The Beginning' pretty much confirmed that Doug was also of that mind, but now I'm not so sure.

    I was happy enough that all the talk of Lister being the last human being, since the Dave era began, just hinted that somehow the boys were of the understanding that the crew all flew into a sun or something.

    I know that Doug loves Hollister and always wants to find ways to use him but I wouldn't be keen on revisiting anything that reminded me of series 8 outside of the type of cameo seen in Skipper.

    Now the bit that left me vaguely annoyed:

    “We’ve always said that we don’t want to do the ‘final show’ – where Lister’s back on Fuchal, he’s got his white horses and somehow he’s got Kochanski and they ride off into the distance and everyone goes ‘What a lame s**t show that was’ – it would be just horrific.”

    First of all, this hasn't "always been said". Doug is on record as literally having wanted to end the show after series 8, in a far less satisfying manner, by having Red Dwarf crash land on the Earth, destroying civilisation and causing tsunamis in the process. This would, in my opinion, have been an awful end to a series that had totally lost direction at this point and I'm glad it never happened.

    Secondly, who among the fan base who have folllowed the show for 30+ years is going to say 'what a lame s**t show that was'? to a good-natured, possibly cathartic ending where the crew get to find happiness?

    When the Trotters finally won their millions in Only Fools.. did people call it a 'lame s**tshow' or was it celebrated as one of the most cathartic scenes in all of sit-com?

    Lister's "dream" isn't as unrealistic as that one was, given the circumstances.

    What was the point of all the foreshadowing, the wedding in stasis leak, the talk of Lister's dream, bringing back Kochanski as an actual character, the hugely emotional "yeah, I will" optimism of Lister's choice in Back to Earth?

    Why exactly is a happy ending for the crew such a dreadful proposition for the Naylors?

    I think we've all read Last Human, we know that Doug is capable of writing a powerfully emotive and satisfying 'ending' to the show (I put that in inverted commas since, despite working as one, Doug apparently feels it isn't one). The reluctance to do so, I get but the cast aren't getting any younger and, personally, I think it would be nice for Lister to get some sort of resolution after all these years, even if it's not everything he ever imagined.

    I do understand that while a show is working you never want or need it to end. The reality is, however, that the show cannot go on forever. You can do the Futurama ending each season or special, that's fine to but I'm left disappointed that the tone now seems not so much to be "we won't do a cathartic ending because we don't want the show to end" but instead "we won't do a cathartic ending because its 'lame'.
     
  2. Ant E

    Ant E Science Officer

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    Alright calm down
     
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  3. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Believe me, I slept on it. I was even more annoyed when I first read it last night.

    I'm afraid I don't feel much better about it this afternoon.
     
  4. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Just because season VIII was terrible doesn't mean a reference back to it will turn out to be awful too. You never know where Doug could go with the premise. The possibilities actually intrigue me. Doug could come up with something amazing.

    Personally (and despite my lukewarm initial reaction to The Promised Land - I really need to give that a rewatch sometime) I like that Doug's still got lots of enthusiasm for making new Red Dwarf and I think it's something we should all be grateful for. I'd love to see a few more of these feature length episodes before Red Dwarf finally comes to an end.
     
  5. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Hence why I am only worried about this one. However, given Doug's preferred method for disposing of guest characters, I'm not sure potential genocide is something to look forward to.

    That aside, we saw how these characters were written in 8. They were not the serious foil for the crew that they were in Series 1, they were panto caricatures and the fact that Doug refers to them as possible 'antagonists' seems to imply they would continue to be the kind of comedy villains he loves to write in modern dwarf. I'd personally rather forget that series 8 ever happened.

    I'd love that too, but realistically the show is living on borrowed time. I'm not opposed to the show never having an ending but to refuse to write one out of fear that fans who have invested in Lister as a character for 30+ years would see it 'lame' seems bizarre logic to me.
     
  6. Cloud

    Cloud Flight Co-Ordinator

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    This made me laugh out loud
     
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  7. Alexandra

    Alexandra First Technician

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    We saw there are planets where nano crew could make some sort of civilisation. Maybe Kotchansky could be with them. Because I can't imagine she would rather be all alone out there without anything to do than on RD. That was just idiotic. I don't like huge plot gap we had in BTE. And I would seriously end myself if they decided to take some 28 yearold actress to play Kotchansky in order to make mentioned happy ending. Series XII was great, new special was great so I hope we will get decent finale. I would be just fine if RD ended with crew deciding to just live on RD ( As I said before they see it as home by now) I never expected happy ending anyway
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
  8. Asclepius

    Asclepius Console Officer

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    First of all, you should listen to the interview with Doug and Richard in the podcast. You will find out that the idea of bringing back the resurrected crew came from the interviewer and the quote in the article is just Doug's instant reaction to it, so we can't really think this is a possibility Doug is considering.

    Well, if there is the crew from series VIII, it doesn't necessary mean the show is as bad as series VIII. It really depends on the writing.

    To the ending, Doug is probably affraid that it would left fans disappointed. It is difficult to write an ending for a show going for more than 30 years. Of course it could be the return to Earth, which would be too obvious, as it's Lister's aim from the very first episode.
    I genuinely didn't like the ending of Last Human, as it just seemed as a sentimental happy end. I'm quite happy if they stay on Red Dwarf forever...
     
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  9. Asclepius

    Asclepius Console Officer

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    So get on with it. Why are you still talking about needing to watch it again? Go and watch it. Or is it the same as with the chat? Will you watch it around 2025?
     
  10. Bluey

    Bluey Science Officer

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    Because like I've already said, I want to watch The Promised Land again when I'm in the right frame of mind for it - otherwise my feelings will probably be mostly negative towards it again.
     
  11. talkie3000

    talkie3000 Deck Sergeant

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    I ain't interested in a whole story written around what happened to the crew after series 8. it would probably be right up Doug's ally to have a load of guest stars to work with. But i just do not care about that storyline.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
  12. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Why would they recast Kochanski as a 28 year old actress? I don't think Chloe Annette is that busy and has already returned once before. Why would she need to be young for Lister to be happy with her? That would just make it creepy.

    There's nothing actually wrong with an obvious, logical ending. If you really need a twist then Last Human provided that, they found a planet, it wasn't the same planet Lister had already imagined but nothing ever works out quite like we imagine it.
    I don't think Earth was ever the important part of his plan, it was all about Kochanski.
    As for the ending of Last Human being sentimental. Yes, it is but there's nothing actually wrong with sentimentality. Lister is the most sentimental characters ever, even more so in the books when he lives in the town that inspired my username.
    His relentless gerbil faced optimism and belief that somehow his plan will come to fruition are part of what makes him such an endearing character and why that scene in the car in BTE genuinely brought tears to my eyes and largely redeemed that otherwise underwhelming special. Of all the Futurama style endings the show has since done, it remains my favourite because it suggests that Lister will never give up and one day he'll find her again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2020
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  13. Alexandra

    Alexandra First Technician

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    That's why I would hate it. :lol:
    Don't know, that stuff happens.
     
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  14. Alexandra

    Alexandra First Technician

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    I know all that. We will find out everything one day
     
  15. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

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    She's right, it does happen a lot with women. Let's be honest, it happened on this very show when they recast her cos the original actress was unkindly labelled "too old", whereas none of the male cast ever had that problem.
     
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  16. Alexandra

    Alexandra First Technician

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    That's what I am saying. It just kills me because RD is big part of my life. And what happened to Hilly?
     
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  17. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

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    I would love it if they brought Hattie back to be Hilly. Norman could still be Holly if that's what people prefer, but Hattie was my fave and think it would be cool to have her back and do something interesting with the Hilly character.
     
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  18. Alexandra

    Alexandra First Technician

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    Was that seriously the case? :-S I was hoping it was just a rumor.
     
  19. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    You put "too old" in quotation marks. Care to link to the quote you are referring to because at no point I'm aware of has it ever been stated that this was the reason. Beatified as she may have been for uttering a handful of lines, CP Grogan was, by that point, a TV presenter and not the professional actress that the show was looking for in a full time character role and potential Hollywood movie. Your argument about age would also, surely, have excluded her in series 6 where she portrays the character in a cameo.
    Similarly a 37 year old Chloe Annette retained her part in Back to Earth. She was not magically recast as a 28 year old. You know how old CP Grogan was when Red Dwarf VII aired? She was 34!
    Why then would the show ditch a 34 year old for a younger model but happily retain a 37 year old?

    Sorry, but you are making this into something it is not. The recasting was never honestly about age and despite the dreadful writing she was given to work with, it's very clear that both Doug and the majority of the fans now see Chloe as Kochanski. If the character ever returns I fully expect it will be Chloe playing the part.
     
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  20. Alexandra

    Alexandra First Technician

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    I think it was more like "not hot enough" :sulk::sulk:
    But I trust they always concentrated on humour and will continue so. They still do great job
     

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