Lister's relationship with the other Dwarfers

Discussion in 'RED DWARF UNIVERSE' started by bedfordfalls, Apr 29, 2012.

  1. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    "It happens you know Rimmer, you meet people and you move on like"

    "You'll end up stuck on a spaceship with 'im, 'im and 'im for the rest of eternity"

    "I'm sick of the Cat, I'm sick of Holly, I'm sick of you, I'm sick of me and as for Kryten...I'm sick of him. I'm sick of this ship,sick of this life, I'm just sick of it"


    These are just a few quotes that demonstrate the Lister of the early series' frustrations with his predicament and, at times, genuine desire to be rid of the other "boys from the Dwarf". I've no idea how they intend to present him in Series X but the later series seem to show him as having resigned himself to his situation and simplifying his dreams...and yet in BTE he seems, temporarily, happy to leave them behind for a better "life" with Kochanski. He doesn't return because of his "friends" but because of a desire to find the "real" Kochanski.

    After spending over twenty years on board Red Dwarf with the same people, you would expect Lister to more than a little institutionalised. I wonder if he really would leave them if he got the chance as he once seemed happy to back in Timeslides.
     
  2. AJ Smegface

    AJ Smegface Second Technician

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    I think he is, generally speaking, but perhaps his love/lust for Kochanski (and perhaps, his desire to return to Earth) sometimes overrides his feelings for the crew. Also, Kryten, Cat and Rimmer don't seem to miss anything from the past as much as Lister does; I don't think they grieve the way he does.
     
  3. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    I don't think the last two quotes should count, as they're both from 'Timeslides' where Lister's frustration comes to a head and he has become tired of his life playing games with Cat, teaching Kryten to rebel and arguing with Rimmer. It's very much an isolated incident in the series.

    His relationship with Rimmer is not of friendship, but of understanding. Lister started off seeing Rimmer as just an annoying, bullying bastard, but as he's learnt about Rimmer's past over the years he's come to understand Rimmer somewhat. His "seeya, smeghead" at the end of 'Holoship' implies a growing, grudging respect and you feel that he will actually miss him. They've also learnt from each other - Rimmer has learnt to chill out a bit more and not be so by-the-book and Lister has matured and taken a bit more responsibility in his life, evolving into a very 'leaderish' figure for the group.
     
  4. sanja

    sanja Supply Officer

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    I agree those quotes was just then because of feelings at that moment, he do care about their "collective" the most, he is just impulsive and tired of patience sometimes.

    Also I understand why Cat doesn't care about Earth, and Kryten, but I don't understand why Rimmer never mentiones Earth (besides that time when he get's letter about his fathers death. Maybe his bitterness helped him to accept that he will never see Earth..... who know....
     
  5. Titanbeing

    Titanbeing Third Technician

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    If my memory is correct i think that Rimmer is not from earth and was born on one of Saturns moons. So therefore he wont have much of a desire to return to Earth.
     
  6. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    While this might be true I think that, with Rimmer, it's more a case of him despising most of his life pre-accident. People, in general, have treat him rather shabbily and he just doesn't get on with them. His situation on board Red Dwarf gives him an illusionary air of authority and the chance to belittle people he sees as being beneath him without there ever being any real danger of them gaining seniority over him. For Rimmer, his current situation is probably as close as he's gotten to contentment...also he's worried he will simoly be turned off when they get back to Earth.
    I'm surprised we havn't seen a situation where, realising this, he directly attempts to sabotage the crews chances of returning to Earth, although I suppose this is what he is doing in Timeslides, in a sense (although this has more to do with jealousy I think).

    There is one moment where I recall Rimmer excitedly talking about how "we could get back to Earth in minutes" though...so perhaps he does harbour a hope.
     
  7. Paul Taylor

    Paul Taylor Console Officer

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    I'm sure Lister is very fond of his crewmates. No-one would want to be stuck with a small group of individuals that way, knowing that in all likelihood those are the only people left in the Universe they could relate to in any way. Most of the rest of the Universe is populated by GELFs and simulants, and even the goal of returning to Earth is full of uncertainties and risks shattering treasured hopes. Lister must feel, as do many of us at times, that the world he's living in and everything in it just represents all the things he'd like to have but can't. I'm sure, in his better moods, he loves the crew just fine. Apart from that smeghead Rimmer.
     
  8. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    Lister is a very optimistic person. He'd rather make the best of a bad situation than sit around feeling sorry from himself. Yes, he is alone in deep space and just one man on a city sized spaceship, but that also means that he has the entire run of the ship and can do what he wants, so there is some fun and excitement there. He can happily spend the rest of his days sat in his bunk eating curries and sugar puff sandwiches whilst watching a good horror film.
     
  9. yeckel

    yeckel Console Officer

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    This is a really interesting topic!

    I don't think people should read too far into comments of dislike or the fact that Lister seems to be returning to find Kochanski. Yes, clearly he wants the woman back. However, how many of us have said, or maybe even thought at the time, that we were acting for one purpose when motivations were actually coming from another source?

    I think if Lister were a real person (sorry guys...he's only in books and movies ;-) ) it would be impossible for anybody on the outside to put a definitive answer on his feelings and reasoning. He may not really be able to clearly describe things himself.

    Pardon me while I geek out for a moment....AND this is ALSO why certain actors really excel in certain roles. You can have two actors that are both incredibly talented. However, one will find his character along a different layer of feelings and motivation than the other (even slight differences matter). The choice of one actor will naturally touch the emotions of the audience more than the other. Also where the actor was coming from (the choices made) may be different than how you exactly perceive it and even how the person next to you perceives it. I don't think people can ever be completely and accurately summarized.

    Now that I have babbled...my guess is Lister has multiple motivations (Kochanski, not wanting to abandon his crew mates, and needing an answer on what became of Earth and other humans). His bond to the fellow crew mates can't just be brushed off as insignificant because he states he is tired of them. Why else would they continue to assist each other in times of need? Yes, there is the argument that they need each other to operate the ship. However, if that was the sole reason they wouldn't take the time to interact as often and in the manner that they do. In my opinion, it resembles a squabbling sibling scenario. Two teenage sisters living together (not of their own choosing) may fight terribly and claim they wish the other would drop off the face of the planet. They will even say it to each other. However, if one were to suddenly vanish or pass away the other would deeply feel the loss and wish things played out differently.

    Did the length of my post rival the Vamp's??? :lol:
     
  10. SixthDwarfer

    SixthDwarfer Supply Officer

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    And, of course, Lister like anyone else gets bored of routine and seeing the same faces every single day. Like Jean-Paul Sartre pointed out, Hell is being locked in a room with your friends for all eternity. And, yeah, his mates were French but the point still stands. Could you say you'd want to spend every waking moment with the same three friends or same three colleagues? No, there are points when it'd get on your nerves and you'd argue.
     
  11. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    Just to be pedantic and slightly off-topic but what Sartre (or rather a character from one of his plays) actually said was "l'enfer, c'est les autres" meaning "Hell is other people".

    It's amazing to see how this misquoted version has entered popular culture, though, thanks to Dwarf.

    In fairness the quote does come from a play of Sartre's where friends are placed into exactly that Hellish situation. The play, 'No Exit' was quite possibly an inspiration for Quarantine, although I suppose you could say that Quarantine is a condensation of the overall theme of early Dwarf...and many sitcoms.
     
  12. Seb

    Seb Captain Staff Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T9nY57OcUw
     
  13. gem5ie

    gem5ie Catering Officer

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    Just to be even more pedantic, the characters in Huis Clos (No Exit) are not friends; in fact they've never met before. It takes them about half the play before they realise they're in hell...
    :-)
     

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