RDXII EPISODE 1 - CURED - DISCUSSION THREAD

Discussion in 'RED DWARF XI / XII' started by Seb, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. Abe but more Halloween themed

    Abe but more Halloween themed Deck Sergeant

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    I always felt that Red Dwarf has been a bit of a philosophical program, whether you look for it or not is a separate issue. I think a lot of the idea of this episode isn't to normalize fascist thinking but instead to point out that (1) it's very easy to forget the awful things someone does when suddenly they seem all charismatic (which is apparently how we wound up with our president), and that (2) it literally identifies the evil and far-right thinking which brought Hitler to perform his atrocities as a disease, albeit curable. It's supposed to be a satire, and make you think about these things, not just present at face value 'oh, but Hitler could be alright if we feel like it.' I didn't have any problem with that part of the episode.
     
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  2. BigOleMummy

    BigOleMummy Supply Officer

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    To me Red Dwarf lives and dies on its comedy. It is a comedy show. They are comic actors primarily. I did not think it was a very funny episode period. That's my point. If you or anyone else wants to philosophize it , fine and dandy I don't care. I watch it to laugh. I did not laugh at this episode. My opinion.
     
  3. bedfordfalls

    bedfordfalls Deck Sergeant

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    That's not what I took from the reveal at all. yes, the audience (and the red Dwarf crew) were supposed to think this was some form of DNA recreation of Hitler, but the reality of the reveal was that it was a mechanoid that had been programmed to believe that it was a "cured" version of Hitler. I didn't see any "normalising" of fascist thinking as the mechanoid in question didn't display any even showing alarm that it might have been seen to be making a salute. In fact all characters, even the previously fascist dictator admiring Rimmer verbally displayed their uncomfortable feelings about associating with them.

    A show can be more than one thing and have more than one aspect. Red Dwarf is pretty well regarded as having a philosophical aspect to it, that's not an opinion. A cursory watch of half a dozen classic episodes reveals this to be a pretty central theme of the writing.

    We get it. You didn't find it funny. However complaining that it offended you as an American probably hasn't helped win people over to your opinion. Comedy is universal and self deprecation is a big part of British humour. Red Dwarf has mocked and used as the basis for its jokes pretty much every nation on the planet by this point(in far cruder less satirical ways than Cured)? You think the USA, particularly the USA of today is going to get a reprieve? :-)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  4. Abe but more Halloween themed

    Abe but more Halloween themed Deck Sergeant

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    Fair enough. I just don't think that's where the layers of the show are supposed to end, or what every episode is supposed to be judged on. If you'd like to, then go for it. I definitely agree that it wasn't very good as an episode.
     
  5. Ant the Dragon

    Ant the Dragon Flight Co-Ordinator

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  6. BigOleMummy

    BigOleMummy Supply Officer

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    Well, for one, I'm not trying to "win people over to my opinion" because quite frankly I don't think its possible for me to care any less about what anyone but me thinks about this episode. I also won't be tying my brain into convoluted knots trying to justify the episodes shortcomings. To me it just sucked. Period. I gave MY reasons for MY thoughts on it. I sincerely hope the rest of series XII is better because I'll buy the DVD no matter what because I love the show. Your mileage may vary.
     
  7. squeal mold

    squeal mold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    an ok episode, with a weak ending. I was slightly confused. were the robots scientists, and if so why were they done up like historical figures. I got confused with the whole, droids, dna, who's who thing?
     
  8. squeal mold

    squeal mold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    as for my views on Hitler, I didn't find it particularly amusing. I've seen hitler parodies endless times and this was another one. Pretty stale by now to be honest
     
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  9. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Hitler et al were service-droids that the mad scientist had re-programmed to think they were historical villains that had been cured. He did this as an elaborate ruse to steal a ship.
     
  10. squeal mold

    squeal mold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    ah, gotcha! so the kryten dna story was nonsense then and just his explanation, that turned out to be untrue? also why were the booths there, were they part of the set up to convince the red dwarf posse?
     
  11. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    Yeah. The DNA stuff turned out to have nothing to do with it.
     
  12. squeal mold

    squeal mold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    as someone who did a thesis on Stalin I was very disappointed to see that he had virtually no input in the episode, he was just as evil as hitler!
     
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  13. squeal mold

    squeal mold Flight Co-Ordinator

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    thanks deep space, and thanks for the v speedy reply! and the booths?
     
  14. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I don't understand it entirely. I think the mad scientist printed all those signs out as part of his ruse. I still don't understand where he got the costumes from, or why they'd be wearing their costumes anyway.
     
  15. BigOleMummy

    BigOleMummy Supply Officer

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    That's true, maybe even more so.
     
  16. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    It was basically a Hitler episode because Hitler is the one we all know. Hitler is rightly or wrongly the most recognisable celebrity villain. Stalin, Vlad III and Messalina were just there to be "other bad guys". Messalina was there so Cat could have something to do (get rejected). It would have been nice to see Rimmer and Kryten talking to Stalin and Vlad.
     
  17. BigOleMummy

    BigOleMummy Supply Officer

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    Agreed.
     
  18. RainbowGazelle

    RainbowGazelle Second Technician

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    I found it a bit odd that Rimmer was giving Lister such a hard time about playing the guitar with Hitler. Wouldn't he be jealous, maybe? He used to adore fascist dictators. Or is that a character trait that's just unacceptable these days?

    Incidentally, the same sort of thing annoyed me in Series X when he's honoured to hold Jesus'es privates. He once referred to him as a hippie and held a very dismissive view. The complete character change in X was extremely jarring to me.
     
  19. Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century

    Deep_Space_in_the_15th_Century Supply Officer

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    I thought the same thing too. In Better Than Life, Rimmer was excited to meet Napoleon because Napoleon was his favourite fascist dictator. Surely he'd be ecstatic to meet Hitler, Stalin, and Vlad III!
     
  20. UltraDevotee

    UltraDevotee Catering Officer

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    Until two days ago I had been waiting to see this episode for so long since the end of series 11 but anyway nigh over one year's wait for new Red Dwarf is magnificent compared to the typical long stretches between series since 1993. As I have mentioned so many times on this forum it was a masterstroke by Doug to film two series back to back so that us fans don't end up getting six episodes and have that feeling of wanting more and then have to wait another few years with all the on-off rumours of a new series being filmed that spin us round in circles.

    But anyway, I waited to watch Cured on Dave even though it was a week later because I prefer to watch it on the big HD television screen. Also although series 12 has started late it will also extend for me, a week longer into November which will be good. But basically it is not just because I am being a Lister and not being bothered to register for UKTV play it is simply because I prefer to watch it on the big HD screen though it is a shame there is an advertisement break (are there adverts when watched on tinternet btw)?

    But anyway who is right - the two or three critics who didn't like it like The Sunday Times (they tend not to like RD anyway), another website (said no good RD since Rob left blah blah blah) or the good number of fans on Doug and his son's twitter feeds who really relished it?

    Now I know Doug and Richard are only going to include the positive comments but largely I have to side with the fans who really enjoyed Cured. For a start, it is right back in the vein of a series four, five and six episode and yes there are obvious references to Meltdown in particular in terms of the historical figures included. I've said many times series 10 was very good but again like with last year's run, this episode and hopefully the rest of series 12 is the most vintage and Dwarfy it has felt since 1993 for sure. I also feel it also harks back to the previous series opener Twentica's feel as well in terms of these figures included and also they are not the real ones like not the real Einstein.

    But basically with the scene in the Red Dwarf living quarters that starts it off, then the travelling in Starbug and exploring a moon with a space station it feels really classic. I remember the Radio Times thought the sci-fi concept of using "cured" evil historical figures was not original but I disagree I think it is a really great and quite a new Red Dwarf idea though of course they all turn out to be reprogrammed droids at the end. So it is another positive that while there is like a bit of a recall to series 4's Meltdown, Doug is coming up with new ideas for an almost thirty year old sitcom. That is what I wanted to be honest from series 12 was for it to be a more innovative companion to the more nostalgic but obviously still superb series 11. So I hope and it might appear that there are set to be some more new, "far out" heavy sci-fi ideas throughout the rest of this year's run amongst a few callbacks again.

    In terms of the plot this was a significant improvement on last year's previous episode Can of Worms. While I do think that finale was pretty good still, it was the weakest of the 2016 run with its convolution and defunct plot devices. Cured's plot is not overly cluttered and has the right level of complexity in order for it to be clever but sufficiently easier to follow and so much more streamlined than Can of Worms.

    The only thing I would say though is this might change on future viewings like with series 11, but I do wonder whether it was a slightly sudden ending though. But still the Cat pay-off with it referring back to the Poker Face scene links it back to beginning of the episode sublimely and makes it good writing from Doug and ultimately I felt rather satisfied by it.

    I must admit when I saw Hitler was going to be in the episode when I saw a picture in the preview I did worry that this was going to be a train wreck like Heil Honey I'm Home. But because it is not the real Hitler etc. and an android instead who does not resemble him too much and the fact that Hitler has featured in Red Dwarf twice before in Timeslides and Meltdown it doesn't derail the comedy of the episode. In fact all the "evil" characters guest stars are well acted and humorous. The guitar riffing scene like with a few scenes in series 11 might carry on a bit too long but it is really funny. The Poker Face gag at the start is really funny too. There are so many great lines throughout and this first episode is like series 11 genuinely very, very funny and had me in stitches - a feature similar to the classic episodes from late 1988 to 1993.

    The only thing I was not too keen on in this episode were the disability gags. I can take Rimmer joking a bit because after all he is a total git but the gag about the villain faking being in a wheelchair I thought took it a bit too far. To be honest with you, I thought it looked a bit like the politics of the current day and could be considered somewhat crass.

    But apart from that one issue, this was a really strong first episode of series 12 and highly enjoyable and I was saying to my dad who was watching it with me - several times - that this is indeed series 6 again. So what higher complement can you give than that to compare it to arguably the finest series of them all! The only thing I would say though I enjoyed it very, very much is if this is the episode that Andrew Ellard said was excellent but divisive - I'm guessing that really because of the people who might take some offence at Hitler - why not start with another episode instead that is likely to have a broader appeal? When I was in Liverpool city centre a couple of days ago I saw how well it was promoted on advertisement boards etc. so that is a good job done by Dave but I noticed the overnight viewing figures were 700,000. Is it me or is that lower than last year's run or are other figures going to be included in a final number by BARB? I hope series 12 with all the great promotion it has had is not set to see viewing figures fall but maybe it is because more people are previewing it early on tinternet instead I suppose. But anyway I personally feel Cured is a highly successful hark back to the series 4 to 6 glory days, very engaging with a new sci-fi idea too and there is such a relentless flow of highly funny gags that had me laughing out loud throughout.

    Rating on first viewing - 8.25 out of 10.

    Well done and thank you very much Doug and co.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2017
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