Conspiracy Theories

Discussion in 'THE AIGBURTH ARMS' started by Pembers, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    9,676
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Location:
    Wherever the catnip is
    *Spacekitty is still bouncing all over the place, squealing with delight*

    *bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce*

    *wooooohoooooooo!!*

    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  2. Abe

    Abe Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,246
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Location:
    Tomorrow
    Neil, please quit posting your fetishes all over the forum.
     
    Asclepius likes this.
  3. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,658
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    I can't help it, they just pop out, ooo-er
     
  4. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,658
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    you'll make yourself sick with all that bouncing kitty
     
  5. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    9,676
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Location:
    Wherever the catnip is
    *Spacekitty has now fainted from all that bouncing and is now floating*

    :dead::dead::dead:
     
  6. Underdunn

    Underdunn Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,547
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Saturday Night Takeaway isn't on. Even though ITV said it was on. Somehow this is connected to Nasa covering up the flat-earth.
     
  7. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    7,097
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Noooo we realised after you left that it was always gonna be cancelled this week, but will run for 2 weeks after. And we had no way to reach you! Was imagining you sitting waiting for it/us all sad, lonely and lost :-(

    This is another reason why you NEED snapchat!
     
  8. Underdunn

    Underdunn Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,547
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    ...so you're saying it isn't connected to Nasa?
     
  9. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    7,097
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Well I don't claim to know the ins and outs of it all....
     
  10. Underdunn

    Underdunn Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    1,547
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    - .... . -.-- / .... .- ...- . / --. --- - / - --- / -. .. -.- -.- .. / .-. . .--. . .- - / - .... . -.-- / .... .- ...- . / --. --- - / - --- / -. .. -.- -.- .. / .- -... --- .-. - / - .... . / ..-. --- .-. ..- --
     
    Nikki the Great likes this.
  11. Nikki the Great

    Nikki the Great Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    7,097
    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    .... .- .-. .-. -.-- / ..- ... . -.. / - --- / -.. --- / - .... .. ... / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / - .... .. -. --. / --- -. / .... . .-. . / .- -. -.. / .-.. --- --- -.- / .... --- .-- / .... . / - ..- .-. -. . -.. / --- ..- - / /
     
    Underdunn likes this.
  12. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,658
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    you say you're floating kitty, has pennywise got you????
     
  13. Kittypaws

    Kittypaws Flight Co-Ordinator

    Messages:
    9,676
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Location:
    Wherever the catnip is
    Not yet...!
     
  14. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,669
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Most of the issues the conspiracy theorists have identified with the moon landing footage have been debunked, I'm personally convinced that the landings were genuine. It's not been all that long back that photos were published of the moons surface that showed visible abandoned equipment and tracks from the rovers, plus there's the reflective dishes which have already been mentioned which have been in use since then. In addition there's support from the former Soviet Union of all places, I can't recall the comment verbatim but it was something to the effect that if the landings had been faked the KGB would have found out about it and the Soviets would have been shouting it from the rooftops.

    The problem with conspiracy theories is that there're so many around that by law of averages at least some must be true.

    A couple that haven't been mentioned already;

    The Pearl Harbor attack was known about well in advance and the US allowed it to happen in order to facilitate US entry into WW2. This is utter nonsense IMO and none of the evidence put forward stands up to scrutiny. (As a side note to this one is another Pearl Harbor conspiracy I stumbled across once, the author of which claimed that there was no way the Japanese could have got close enough with 1941 technology to attack Hawaii undetected and concluded they must have launched the attack from their secret moon base...)

    Titanic wasn't really sunk, she was swapped with her slightly older sister Olympic and it was Olympic that was deliberately sacrificed as an insurance scam. Again utter nonsense that doesn't stand up at all and is flat out contradicted by physical evidence recovered from the wreck. It's not been helped though that very few images of Titanic actually exist and a lot of "Titanic" photos were of the almost identical Olympic.

    Overall "Utter nonsense" really sums up most conspiracy theories for me. Some I am convinced, or at least I hope, are just basically trolling, the Japanese moon base is one such example although the article seemed 100% sincere when I read it so it is possible that some people are genuinely that stupid.

    Some conspiracies do happen pretty much by definition, any time two or more people get together and decide to do something, that's a conspiracy. But Chemtrails, 9/11 Truthers and Illuminati Lizard men are pure fantasy.

    That said, I've recently got into watching Ancient Aliens. It's fun (IMO) providing you don't take it seriously, but it can get almost depressing how quickly and easily the producers/writers leap to the conclusion that aliens are responsible for, well practically everything. I didn't realise until I started watching it just how close to the reality of the show the meme was.
     
  15. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,658
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    I can believe the Titanic was an insurance job. There were sightings of the iceberg long before it was hit. It didn't just suddenly rear up, as films and other depictions show. Of course anything can be debunked, both pro and con, which is what makes me interested in conspiracy theories in the first place. Also the PearL harbour thing, I agree. However the U.S was pretty much in the war on the side of the allies from the get go. They loaned the allies tonnes of stuff (literally) including armaments and food, and the propaganda was always strongly against Hitler. Just look at their pre 1942 movies and cartoons, its impossible to believe that they actually weren't blatantly on the allies side. Thank god they were to!

    Personally I never saw the sense or logic of the folly of the Japanese in getting the US involved. Firstly the U.S was massively powerful, secondly it was too far away to be of any strategic importance. Thirdly it had massive supplies of food and military, and was pretty much self sufficient, so it was never gonna be starved, and it was too massive to attempt to invade or bomb into submission. utter folly really, also it was techonologically advanced, so it's not like the axis could have had the advantage of military superiority anyway
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  16. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,669
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    I disagree. The iceberg was spotted before it was hit, that much is well known, but a ship the size of Titanic takes a long time to turn and the iceberg was spotted later than it might have been because due to a last minute crew substitution the binoculars were locked away and the key was still with the former crewman back in the UK. Titanic was also travelling at a very high speed, which would have made her turning circle even wider, due to a coal-bunker fire which had been smouldering since she left port (Not because Captain Smith was recklessly racing to make a trans-Atlantic crossing record). It's just implausible that White Star would willingly cause massive damage to its own reputation to sink their flagship vessel, especially on the back of the rather embarrassing collision between Olympic and HMS Hawke and pieces recovered from the Titanic wreck prove pretty conclusively that it is the Titanic and not the Olympic down there.

    America as a whole still had a pretty strong isolationist sentiment at the time, Pearl Harbour and the subsequent German and Italian declarations of war removed the obstacles to American involvement in the war however. Don't forget though that America was far from 100% behind the British Empire and Soviet forces, a lot of American companies were very wary of exports to the Soviets at that stage as they seemed on the verge of collapse, similarly Ford had refused to build Merlin engines for the British. The US was also not entirely altruistic in their approach, at a time when Britain was desperate for ships the US traded obsolescent destroyers for British territorial possessions, even with Lend-Lease the US expected to be paid back sooner or later.

    The Japanese attack did make a fair bit of sense really. The US Pacific fleet was by far the most powerful other naval force in the Pacific and strategically it needed to be neutralised or at least blunted as quickly as possible, the US as a whole was never the Japanese objective. Japan was struggling under US led sanctions and trade restrictions that were imposed on her and wanted to be self-sufficient, for that Japan needed the resources that were at that stage mostly held by the European colonies in what would be known as the China-Burma-India theatre and the likes of the Philippines, however they knew full well that the US wasn't going to sit back and let that happen. The Japanese intention was to cripple the US Pacific fleet then establish a defensive ring in the Pacific that would prove too costly for the Americans to break and then they could negotiate a favourable peace. After Midway though that miltarily just was not going to happen, probably not from the moment of the first bombs and torpedoes were dropped on Pearl Harbour.

    I'd also point out that the US military at least was not particularly technologically advanced at the time of the attack in 1941. They had a good sized surface navy, but their aircraft and armoured fighting vehicles were pretty mediocre and the US Army was relatively tiny. They were however capable of modernising and expanding with a truly shocking rapidity and were quite quickly more than a match for the Japanese, as an indication I can recall seeing statistics that the US typically produced more aircraft per month than Japan managed per year. With attrition in pilot quality as well as quantity, there was just no way Japan was going to even keep pace with that, even considering that the US went with a "Germany First" policy.
     
  17. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,658
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    Yes I agree with what you say though. It was still folly though, to involve a country as large and powerful and self sufficient as the U.S, especially with the problems the axis faced anyway if not various fronts at the time. Also the U.S was under high political pressure from the u.s mafia to aid the allies, as they considered musollini a pest and an interferer. Ironic really, that the mafia of all people, should be responsible for the u.s entering the war, well at least having a say in it anyway. I don't know much about the Titanic, but like I said, it's very open to argument to this day.
     
  18. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 Console Officer

    Messages:
    2,669
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    It was more that the Japanese high command mostly underestimated the resolve of the US and their willingness to take losses in order to retake the Pacific. To be fair to the Japanese though arguably their best commander, Yamamoto, was fairly accurate in his prediction that the Japanese would run riot for about 6 months. Once Midway happened in June 1942 though, that really was the battle that turned the Pacific. Coral Sea showed that the Japanese could be stopped, but Midway showed that they could be decisively defeated.

    The Axis was only ever really a marriage of convenience anyway. Hitler felt obliged to support Mussolini because of their similar ideologies, but the Italians mostly hindered rather than helped the Germans. Once it was clear that the US was siding with Britain, it made sense for the Japanese to band together with Germany and Italy. Germany always hoped that the Japanese would reciprocate and declare war on the Soviets too, but the Japanese were smart enough to not do so.

    It really isn't. Once you accept that physical differences in the structure on the wreck that is lying on the bottom of the Atlantic rule out the possibility that it's the Olympic, there is literally no reason whatsoever for White Star to have sacrificed their brand new luxury flagship on its maiden voyage, all those passengers and the company reputation for the insurance money.

    Although shipping was an unpredictable business, White Star wasn't in particular financial trouble at that point, they'd just bought two massive ships with a third in the class, Britannic, already under construction at the time of Titanic's sinking. If they were that short of money, wouldn't they have at least started off by cancelling Britannic rather than indulge in some convoluted plot to disguise Olympic up as Titanic, then allow it to be sunk along with the company's reputation?

    The only way it's open to argument is by people who will dismiss anything that runs counter to their pet theory - in this case that includes pieces that have actually been recovered from the wreck that prove beyond reasonable doubt it was Titanic and not Olympic that sank. Of course, that doesn't stop some people from literally refusing to believe the evidence in front of their eyes.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  19. neilold

    neilold Science Officer

    Messages:
    10,658
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Location:
    above you all in cheshire
    Well, fair enough, you argue your point well
     
  20. Asclepius

    Asclepius Deck Sergeant

    Messages:
    2,429
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2016
    Location:
    Behind you
    This thread should be renamed to: TLDR
     
    Nikki the Great likes this.

Share This Page